On many art archives and innumerable webcomics (bad and good), the badly-adapted manga tropes (rip-offs mentioned) done without rhyme or reason but just seeing “X is popular, so let’s put X in our strip” can really make one worn thin to the whole genre.

Niall gets what I was trying to say – it pretty much sums it up best.

On the whole My Cage self-reference and art style debate which Emily K touched upon: considering the artist, it is appropriate to put in manga influences (sorry Stij), since Melissa deJesus has published original “American manga” with the publisher TokyoPop; her look in MC incorporates some of those tropes, yes. I believe the point may well be exactly to hook in “younger” adult readers, say in their 20s and 30s, who by now have grown up with the style and conventions and may like seeing something they can recognise more than the older cartooning styles used by most humour strips. Ms. deJesus’ use of the big heads and expressive facial features is definitely different than most of what’s on the funnies page.

But no, it’s no more “furry” than Pearls Before Swine, Sherman’s Lagoon or Over the Hedge (to use more modern and appropriate examples than the perennial Pogo); it’s just that a lot of the (bad and good) furry art which has seeped into some consciousnesses also incorporate many of the same design tricks by a number of the artists, consciously or not, well-integrated or not, as deJesus deliberately does.

I’m still scratching my head at the inclusion, and emphasis, of “furfag American” in post #82. Is it because only Japanese should use the “manga artstyle”? Considering there’s no one manga artstyle, and that a certain number of them are influenced and sometimes even derived from American comic strips and books (twisted and adapted), I see nothing wrong with the full circle going on here. Influence remains influence.

But I still agree with Emily K’s point that the self-reference is bordering on desperation. One strip would have been fine, but belabouring the point over three weeks can definitely wear thin. I had misgivings last week, and I’m one of the big fans of the strip (for its humour and slight difference in going for humour targets actually more than its art style), so I hope no one is seeing me as a sycophant. It’s not easy to self-reference; Pastis has his own unique way, which works within his style.

That it lost some readers even on here is not a good sign. Ed Power, I don’t think even the meta itself was a problem on the heels of the FW references; I think it’s strictly about the self-insertion as centre-stage. It did come off as soapboxing – which it probably was, but is tougher to take in-strip by your direct avatars rather than in blogs or on the strip’s website.

The rest of my thoughts are echoed by 141. commodorejohn, who wasn’t long-winded at all.

137. Ed Power: I can see where Emily K would have “gotten that from”, sadly. On many art archives and innumerable webcomics (bad and good), the badly-adapted manga tropes (rip-offs mentioned) done without rhyme or reason but just seeing “X is popular, so let’s put X in our strip” can really make one worn thin to the whole genre. I’m still impressed your strip was accepted, and that’s not easy in the syndicated strip business at all – which is entirely different than the online world. I personally see more classic cartooning styles than manga ones, which would make sense with Melissa’s background. I doubt she has any contact or interest in “fandom”; being a professional doesn’t leave her the time, I would suspect. :)

146. Ed Power: Yup, I guess I did peg the “desperation” part. And three weeks is a long time, actually, to whack the “choir” as it were. I think one or two weeks max is how long you can pull off something like this. I certainly understand why you did it! But some of us were expecting a little more self-deprecation, and no, Norm didn’t count. :) The payoff may be this coming Sunday; if so, that may soothe things for some, but be too late for others. Oh well.

This said, you still succeeded where so many try and fail – but wanting it to continue and not die so soon must be hard on a level I cannot imagine…

179. Stij: considering the strip is not part of the subculture (neither creators are), and the subculture is not even aware of it… but it takes someone aware of the subculture to say that, doesn’t it? I can’t fault those who aren’t (i.e. most people) think that it is. In fact, I’d say some in teh subculture would not want anything to do with it because it’s not created by anyone within the subculture. I swear, some days, the nearly-incestuous self-referential bent those people have is truly staggering. Blinders of immense proportions (like most of the art… hey, I can say this, I’ve tried. :) But I also failed so I don’t take space on any archive.)

180. commodorejohn: remember that My Cage is a syndicated strip; they don’t die as quickly as webcomics can, or in the same way.

189. Cambiata: again, that would work for webcomics, but syndicated strips live or die by feedback to newspaper editors only. Talent or quality doe not factor in it; see Dinette Set or Chuckle Bros.